Dianne Parker:
It’s all about the pulse of community that really energizes the pulse within ourselves, which benefits our mental, our physical, all of the aspects of who we are and keeps us much more fit to go on with life in a way that’s joy-filled.
Jay Ingram:
That’s our guest, Dianne Parker. She’s a lifelong volunteer. And the science is saying that people who volunteer are boosting their brain health and living longer.
Allison Sekuler:
Welcome to Defy Dementia, the podcast for anyone who has a brain.
Jay Ingram:
Defy Dementia is all about living in ways that reduce our risk of dementia, and that’s because dementia is not dictated by our genes.
Allison Sekuler:
Genetics can play a role, but lifestyle risk factors like insufficient exercise, social isolation, and diminished wellbeing may also have a significant impact. And we’re recording this show during the holiday season, a time of giving.
Jay Ingram:
So today, we’re exploring volunteering. How giving of oneself, giving your time, not only lifts up others, but may also help protect brain health and reduce our dementia risk. I’m Jay Ingram. I’m a science journalist. I’ve been exploring and writing about brain science for most of my career.
Allison Sekuler:
And I’m Allison Sekuler. I’m president and chief scientist of the Baycrest Academy for Research and Education and the Center for Aging and Brain Health Innovation.
Jay Ingram:
Join us as we defy dementia and as we celebrate the spirit of giving because you’re never too young or too old to take care of your brain.
Allison Sekuler:
Before we begin, we have a listener advisor for you. The first interview in this episode contains descriptions of suicidal behavior and abuse.
Jay Ingram:
So if you think you might be triggered, please listen with care or maybe consider not listening to this episode. And now, volunteerism and how it benefits our brain.
Allison Sekuler:
In many faiths and cultures, this time of year is celebrated as a season of generosity of spirit. Some families traditionally set aside time to serve others who are less fortunate than themselves.
Jay Ingram:
Or maybe some of us are thinking about our New Year’s resolutions or maybe contemplating that becoming a volunteer might be a rewarding experience in the coming year.
Allison Sekuler:
So we have a holiday gift for you and your brain. There’s growing evidence that volunteerism is great for brain health and that it may contribute to dementia risk reduction.
Jay Ingram:
That might be because factors like social engagement and wellbeing, a feeling of purposefulness, are working together to protect the brains of volunteers. But is there a point at which volunteering too much can be bad for your health?
Allison Sekuler:
We’re going to explore that later in the show with a researcher who has scrutinized the link between volunteerism and brain health. But first, we’re off to Halifax to meet a lifelong volunteer.
Jay Ingram:
Reverend Dianne Parker is 79 years old. She’s a grandmother and an Anglican priest at St. Mark’s Church in Halifax, one of the city’s oldest churches. Though retired and living on a pension, she continues to serve as unpaid clergy. Her life of volunteering began in her youth, collecting for the Red Cross in her village. Over the years, she’s given her time to the Canadian Cancer Society, the Children’s AIDS Society, and many other causes. Today, she volunteers with L’Arche Halifax, a home for adults living with disabilities, and she serves as the volunteer chair of a fundraising campaign to restore a century old pipe organ at St. Mark’s.
Reverend Parker has received numerous honors for her service, including the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee and Platinum Jubilee Medals and the Senate of Canada 150th Anniversary Medal. Reverend Dianne Parker joins us now from Halifax. Dianne, thank you for helping us defy dementia.
Dianne Parker:
Thank you for inviting me on. It’s an honor and a pleasure. Thank you.
Jay Ingram:
I have the impression you’re not accustomed to talking about yourself and maybe don’t even want to talk about yourself, but I’d like to paint a picture of your current volunteer work, so people really get an idea of what you do. Can you give us some examples of how you’re currently volunteering?
Dianne Parker:
Well, currently I’m volunteering at the L’Arche community, where I facilitate and participate in weekly community gatherings. [I am] also pastor to the core members and to the staff, and assist in any way I can in their fundraisers. I’m also a volunteer clergy at St. Mark’s and throughout the diocese when needed. I got a call this morning from a funeral home, for instance, to help to do a committal for a family whom I’ve never met.
Oh, yes, also. I am beating the drum to restore a 105-year-old Casavant organ in a historic church in the north end of Halifax, St. Mark’s. And it’s not just for the congregation itself, it’s for the whole community. It’s that pulse. Music is a universal language, and so we’re able to have concerts and to welcome people from all around the world, because in the north end of Halifax, we have many immigrants and many refugees.
Allison Sekuler:
That’s amazing. What do you think first drew you to community service at such a young age?
Dianne Parker:
Well, as a child, I remember going from door to door collecting for the Red Cross. My father was a fabulous example of the pulse of community, and volunteerism to me is the fabric of community. It’s so life giving, not only to those for whom you are advocating for, but for yourself. And so my father was renowned for giving blood to help. And the Red Cross, of course, was the umbrella for that. And that would’ve been in the late ’40s and ’50s. And so that was the kernel of that.
Also through my faith journey in our church community where we were taught to be there for others. My mother and my grandmother taught Sunday school, and eventually as a teenager, I did as well. And so there was that meshing of, not just hearing the stories of volunteering and its importance but there was the example of that within the community, not only from my father, but from others as well.
Allison Sekuler:
Hearing about the tremendous range of activities in which you volunteer and have volunteered over the years, I’m really curious how you pick what it is that you’re going to be devoting your time to, and what’s kept you motivated to keep on volunteering over the decades?
Dianne Parker:
You don’t want to burn out as a volunteer. And that’s a caution that I give to other volunteers, when I’m encouraging others to volunteer. Because if we burn out, it affects our health, then it’s not life giving to anyone anymore. It’s detrimental to the volunteer. So you have to balance that. Sometimes you have to decide how many years or how long to be dedicated to one particular branch of something and then move on or pull back on one and then give a little more to the other. And so it’s a balancing act.
Jay Ingram:
Dianne, this particular episode of Defy Dementia is focused on how volunteering helps reduce dementia risk. How do you think that works? What do you see in volunteering that would persuade you that it keeps people mentally and cognitively well?
Dianne Parker:
Well, it gives people a sense of purpose. It also takes them out of isolationism, which is so detrimental. We saw that during COVID, how that affected people mentally and physically. When people volunteer, they also join a social community, a community in which they make friends. And as they form relationships, they begin to share some of their difficulties that they’re having in life, maybe health, financial, or whatever. And there may be someone in the group with which they’re volunteering that can be helpful to direct them to some professional people, whom they can benefit from in their own journey.
So it’s not just giving of yourself continually. It’s a partnership. You may be working a phone line, for instance, for a volunteer group. Or you may be doing some interviewing for a food bank and clients come and you have to spend some time with them and see where their needs are and that sort of thing. It’s all about the pulse of community that really, shall we say, energizes the pulse within ourselves, which benefits our mental, our physical. All of the aspects of who we are and keeps us much more fit to go on with life in a way that’s joy-filled.
Jay Ingram:
How do you think your brain has benefited from your extent of volunteering?
Dianne Parker:
Well, it has kept me sharp. For instance, volunteering at the church, there are some Sundays that I’m the preacher, and so that takes a bit of planning and thought. I have to do some research and write my script, because I always have a script in front of me, otherwise you might be sitting for a half an hour or an hour listening to me.
Allison Sekuler:
Dianne, it was mentioned before, you’ve received several major medals for your volunteer work and recognition of your community service. I’m sure that is not why you do this. So I’m curious, what moments have been most meaningful to you personally about volunteering?
Dianne Parker:
The moments that have been most meaningful are those where I can see a difference in someone’s life. I’ll give you a couple of stories. It was three o’clock in the morning, my phone rings, which I have on by my bed. And the voice on the other end says, “I’ve just written my suicide note.” They knew of me years ago. I didn’t recall the person’s name, but they just had to go online to find my phone number. My immediate reaction is to keep them on the line, of course, and to get as much of their story as I can. You keep them on the line, until you can get them some help to arrive at their door. I followed it up much later and found that they did get help and are still functioning somewhat with a lot of care and so on.
[Another story], and I had this happen so many times, where the doorbell would ring at the rectory, the church house. On the other side of the door would be a woman standing with a garbage bag and that’s all she could get to bring. It was an abusive situation and she was fleeing. And so you react, again. This one particular case is one of so many, where she was able to move on with her life eventually. We got her into community college, ended up with a career where at the end, she will have a pension and was able to reconnect with her children. That to me is bigger than any medal and it wasn’t my doing. I’m just the vehicle. I’m just the vehicle and I fall short every day.
When you move into a community, you make contacts right away. [There are three key places]: a garage, a pharmacy, and a motel. With the garage, I introduce myself — who I am and why I’m there. I can call and say, “This is the licence plate that will be coming to your gas station. I can’t come with them. Put a certain amount of gas in that car, and I’ll come by later to pay.” With the pharmacy, it’s the same. I call, tell you who I am, and that so-and-so is coming for a prescription. You give them the medication, and I’ll come by later to settle it. And then there’s the motel — preferably one with a restaurant. I might call you in the middle of the night. Someone has just been rescued from a domestic situation, or is fleeing something. I may not be able to come with them. I give you the name. You give them a room and make sure they’re fed right away. I will come by the next day.
Allison Sekuler:
It’s amazing. It’s so wonderful people have you in their corner.
Dianne Parker:
I’m only one of many who do this, but it’s all about building relationships in the community. Getting back to the question, which I’m sorry I probably went astray on. In that context of keeping me sharp. It’s related to others, so that we can work together to help other people out. You have to be thinking about how to do that. You have to strategize.
Jay Ingram:
Dianne, I’m sure there are many, many people listening to you right now who might be thinking about volunteering for the first time, but really don’t know how to start. What would you say to them?
Dianne Parker:
First of all, find another volunteer. If you live in a small community, I’m sure you would know of agencies that need volunteers, perhaps there’s a neighbor or someone in your church group or someone that you know that goes shopping at the same grocery store as you. They will direct you. And they may even know some other places that need volunteers, where they’re volunteering themselves. Like in Halifax, we have children’s programs. Like Ward 5 Neighborhood Center, where they have breakfast programs for children, lunch programs, and afterschool programs. All of these places are just looking for volunteers. Take the Mission to Seafarers in Halifax, for example. We provide meals for seafarers there. Crews from all over the world come in, and we reach out to them — especially at Christmas — with gifts. Many of them come from countries where they’re not equipped for Halifax’s cold weather. So there’s a need for socks, mittens, and hats. People knit those items.
Jay Ingram:
When you think about the connection between volunteering and aging well and maybe even defying dementia, what would you want people listening to you right now to take away with them?
Dianne Parker:
Well, let’s look at volunteerism as a movement in the dance of life. Life is a dance with the Creator, however you want to name that Creator, whatever religiosity or philosophy that you adhere to. But life is a dance with all of creation, with the Creator and all of creation, anything that breathes. Whether it’s a fish, a bird, or particularly we humans with each other. And that dance is much more life giving, much more life giving. If the rhythm is one of compassion and journeying together to help one another in community, and volunteerism falls within that dance. And the reward is not only your own wellbeing, being so much more productive for yourself and for others around you, but to encourage others to do the same. And it may sound so big, but actually things start with a little drop of water and the ripples go out from that to be able to connect with the rhythm of others. Whether you want to look at it in the context of a dance or in the context of environment, but being there, journeying together, it’s so worthwhile. It’ll make a difference not only in your own life, but for so many others and for the world.
Jay Ingram:
Dianne, this has been terrific. Thank you so much for helping us defy dementia and thank you on behalf of many thousands of people, I’m sure, for all the volunteer work that you do.
Allison Sekuler:
Yeah. Thank you so much.
Dianne Parker:
Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity and God bless you all and all of those who are listening.
Jay Ingram:
Reverend Dianne Parker is an Anglican priest in the Diocese of Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island. She joined us from Halifax, Nova Scotia. Our next guest is an expert on the power of giving and generosity. And no, we’re not talking about the guy in the red suit.
Allison Sekuler:
But she is a jolly soul. Are you not Nicole?
Nicole Anderson:
Yeah, normally I am, except when I’m writing a research grant and facing a deadline.
Allison Sekuler:
Dr. Nicole Anderson is my colleague here at Baycrest, and she’s been listening to Dianne’s story. Nicole studies the aging brain and how lifestyle choices can reduce dementia risk. And in 2014, she published a widely cited paper exploring how volunteerism can support brain health. Nicole is a senior scientist at the Rotman Research Institute and co-scientific director of the Kimel Family Center for Brain Health and Wellness at Baycrest. She’s also a professor of psychology and psychiatry at the University of Toronto, and she’s joined us on Defy Dementia before, both on the podcast and at many, many live events. So Nicole, thank you again for helping us defy dementia.
Nicole Anderson:
You’re very welcome. Happy to be here.
Allison Sekuler:
What struck you about Dianne Parker’s story when you heard it?
Nicole Anderson:
A lot of things struck me in what she was talking about. She really hit the science on the nail. In describing how volunteering benefits her, it very much resonated with what we know from the science. So she’s talked about it giving a sense of purpose in life, for example, and that’s been shown before. And even independently, just having a sense of purpose in life is associated with a reduced risk of dementia.
Jay Ingram:
So Nicole, what does the evidence currently show about volunteering as a protective factor for brain health?
Nicole Anderson:
Yes. So back in that 2014, and I acknowledge that was quite some time ago, we did a comprehensive review collating all of the evidence out there. And what we found is that there’s a clear association between volunteering and reduced symptoms of depression, better self-reported health, fewer functional limitations, and greater longevity. That is that volunteers live longer than non-volunteers. Since 2014, the research that comes out has replicated those findings, but it’s gone beyond it as well. Now there’s more evidence that volunteering also helps to reduce loneliness that is associated with cognitive benefits. It even helps to reduce our biological age. Our epigenetic factors that control how fast we are aging. So a lot has come out since then.
Jay Ingram:
Could we focus on what volunteering actually is? Is there a range of activities that you would generally say, “Yeah, those qualify for volunteering.”
Nicole Anderson:
All of this research is focused on formal volunteering. That is you’re volunteering for an organization or an agency or a not for-profit or what have you. This evidence does not come from informal volunteering, which tends to be caregiving. And that’s an important distinction because we know that caregiving is associated with an increased risk of dementia. You’re usually doing it in not so happy circumstances, you’re doing your best, but it’s very, very stressful. So here we’re talking about formal volunteering.
Allison Sekuler:
You mentioned that even things like the brain age or how the brain is aging, might be changing. Do we have any idea what’s going on in the brains of volunteers that could be reducing their dementia risk?
Nicole Anderson:
Not really directly. There was only one study that imaged the brain in people who are assigned to volunteer versus assigned to a control condition. They did see some changes in activation patterns, but regardless, we know that volunteering is improving physical health. It’s improving psychosocial wellbeing, it’s improving cognition. And so we would expect that it would, at the very least, be creating more cognitive reserve so that people can withstand the negative effects of any brain disease that could cause dementia. We would expect greater resilience to any brain pathology.
Allison Sekuler:
So you’ve been talking about it as though volunteering causes changes in the brain, but is it possible that it’s really just the healthier or more motivated people who are the ones who volunteer in the first place and could that skew the results?
Nicole Anderson:
Absolutely. And in fact, that’s true, is that volunteers tend to be a bit younger than non-volunteers. If you look within an age range, they tend to be more educated, to be healthier, and less depressed to start. However, even given that, if you follow them over time as they’re volunteering, they still become less depressed. They still report better health and fewer functional limitations. So it’s yes to both.
Jay Ingram:
Do you think that doctors and clinicians should recommend volunteerism as something to do to help your brain health?
Nicole Anderson:
Yes, absolutely. So there’s a big push for social prescribing, and this is a great example of it. It would be great if doctors did encourage not just older adults [but also] middle-aged adults, young people to volunteer as a way to get that added physical and cognitive and psychosocial activity.
Jay Ingram:
Is there some threshold? I mean, let’s say I volunteer once a week as opposed to three times a week. Is that crucial? Does that make a difference?
Nicole Anderson:
Yes, there seems to be. In that comprehensive review that we did, it looked like about a 100 annual hours of volunteering was the sweet spot for enjoying benefits. The benefits accrued up to about a 100 annual hours, and then you don’t really benefit that much more after that. And sometimes, if you volunteer too much, it can be associated with a loss of some of those benefits. And Dianne alluded to this as well. You want to avoid volunteering too much so that you burn out. We conducted a study here at Baycrest too, looking at the benefits of volunteering and we found that cognitive benefits were associated with volunteering, but they were present in people who did not volunteer too many hours. So we replicated Dianne’s impression, you want to volunteer just enough, but not too much.
Jay Ingram:
Why is that, do you think? Why is there an ideal limit?
Nicole Anderson:
If you volunteer too much, it becomes like a job, and that’s not what people have signed up for. It becomes such a duty that is taking away from the other activities in your life and is potentially very stressful too. And aligning with that is the fact that people who volunteered too many hours didn’t have as big of cognitive benefit. Likewise, people who volunteered in too complex of volunteer roles, challenging or demanding volunteer roles, had fewer cognitive benefits. So it is a little bit like “less is more”. You don’t have to volunteer too many hours or in too difficult of situations to enjoy the benefits.
Allison Sekuler:
So we’ve often heard things like to learn a new skill, it takes 1,000 hours. You mentioned 100 hours. Is that what we should be shooting for or is it a limit we should stick to?
Nicole Anderson:
Exactly. That’s what it looks like. That should be a target you should be shooting for. And then consider if you do more than that, what effects is that having on you? Is it negative? Then maybe scale back to about 100 annual hours.
Allison Sekuler:
One of the taglines at Defy Dementia is you are never too young or too old to take care of your brain. Is volunteerism something that benefits at any age or do you think it might be particularly important for older adults?
Nicole Anderson:
I think it would benefit any age, but it is important for older adults and middle-aged adults, when we’re talking about defying dementia because we know that what we do in midlife and in late life has a lot of power in terms of reducing dementia risk.
Allison Sekuler:
Sometimes we hear about people who have retired and then rapidly decline. Would your advice be to be planning on volunteering before they retire?
Nicole Anderson:
Yes. A lot of people like to do nothing in the first year or so after retirement, but I don’t recommend that. I recommend that you identify two to three things that you would like to do or to pick up and volunteering is a great option there because it affords the physical, cognitive and psychosocial benefits.
Allison Sekuler:
So it could be volunteering. It could be like Jay plays the electric violin. It could be doing theater. It could be lots of different things.
Nicole Anderson:
Exactly.
Jay Ingram:
Nicole, we’re heading into the holidays in a time that maybe paradoxically can be quite lonely or stressful. If someone were to volunteer only during the holidays, is that something that could still benefit their wellbeing and their brain?
Nicole Anderson:
Well, we talked about the 100 annual hours being the sweet spot, in terms of the benefits of volunteering, which you probably wouldn’t get if you just volunteer over the holidays, but nevertheless, it’s better than nothing. It gives you an opportunity to contribute to an organization. You’re still getting access to tasks that you’re assigned, you’re learning something new, you’re doing it with other people, and there should be some benefits to that, even if it isn’t for a long time.
Allison Sekuler:
Nicole, thank you again for helping us defy dementia.
Jay Ingram:
Thank you.
Nicole Anderson:
Oh, you’re welcome. Happy to be here.
Allison Sekuler:
Dr. Nicole Anderson is a senior scientist at the Rotman Research Institute and co-scientific director of the Kimel Family Center for Brain Health and Wellness at Baycrest. She’s also a professor of psychology and psychiatry at the University of Toronto, and she joined us from Toronto.
Jay Ingram:
Allison, what struck you about what we’ve heard so far?
Allison Sekuler:
Well, when we were talking to Dianne, I just loved when she described volunteerism as part of the dance of life. It was such a beautiful way of describing it. And I think what she was really getting at was that life is so full. It gives her purpose, and purposefulness is really what the key component of all of that was.
Jay Ingram:
We mentioned this briefly, but volunteerism seems to me to be typical of some of the things that we talk about in the podcast that combine one or more things that you can do to lower your risk for dementia. When you think about it, volunteerism takes you out of the house. It allows you to socialize. You have to engage your brain for different circumstances, especially if you volunteer in different settings.
Allison Sekuler:
You might get exercise while you’re doing it.
Jay Ingram:
You might get exercise, unless you just walk to your car, but it is a really nice combination. You mentioned purposefulness and I think that may be the most important part. The other thing that really fascinates me, and it’s unfortunately not yet completely explained, is what really goes on in the brain. Volunteerism helps the brain. It has all the benefits that Nicole told us about, but what is really going on? I mean, I would be fascinated to know exactly what that is.
Allison Sekuler:
There’s a lot more work, obviously, that’s got to be done, but one of the things we heard on a previous episode was that purposefulness was linked to wellbeing and brain health. And that there were changes in the brain that were also linked to that. So you got to wonder, is it all connected somehow? The other thing that I found really interesting was when Nicole was talking about how there’s a sweet spot for volunteering, because I guess I always think more is just better. But it seems like for some people at least, too much volunteering might take on a different kind of meaning. So beyond that 100 hours per year sweet spot for most people on average, it might seem more like work. And presumably that amount varies from person to person. I guess the best advice is to volunteer as much as you can, as much as makes you joyful and gives you a sense of purpose, but check in on yourself if you feel like you’re volunteering too much.
Jay Ingram:
Yeah. And if you’re in a place in your life where you don’t really want to work nine to five anymore, feeling like it’s work could be pretty depressing. So check that out too.
Allison Sekuler:
Absolutely. But anything is better than nothing, for sure.
Jay Ingram:
To find out more about how you can become a volunteer and how we can all boost our brain health and reduce the risk of dementia or slow its progression, please visit us at defydementia.org. There you can check out other episodes of the podcast, as well as our videos, infographics, and other resources.
Allison Sekuler:
Our podcast production team is Rosanne Aleong and Sylvain Dubroqua. Production is by PodText. Music is by Steve Dodd. And our cover art is by Amanda Forbis and Wendy Tilby. Our writer and chase producer is Ben Schaub.
Jay Ingram:
We’d also like to thank the funders of this podcast, the Slaight Family Foundation, and the Center for Aging and Brain Health Innovation and Baycrest.
Allison Sekuler:
And we also are very grateful for your support too. So please click that subscribe button for Defy Dementia wherever you get your pods and don’t forget to leave a like, a comment or maybe even a five-star review.
Jay Ingram:
Next time on Defy Dementia, depression and dementia risk. Many people live with depression and many of those people know and their loved ones know that depression can have a significant impact on overall health. And there’s evidence that depression is also a risk factor for dementia.
Allison Sekuler:
And obviously that’s not good news, but as you will also hear, there are reasons for hope and options worth considering. That’s next time on Defy Dementia. I’m Allison Sekuler.
Jay Ingram:
And I’m Jay Ingram. Thank you for listening to Defy Dementia. And don’t ever forget, you’re never too young or too old to take care of your brain.