Susan Gapka: I'm lucky to be alive. And when I was younger, I never expected to live past 30 years of age, and here I am more than double that. Looking at the risk factors of social isolation, drugs and alcohol, cigarettes, poverty, lack of diet, those are all things I experienced when I was younger. Jay Ingram: That's Susan Gapka. As a trans person, she thinks she's at increased risk of developing dementia largely because of discrimination and health inequity. Allison Sekuler: Welcome to Defy Dementia, the podcast for anyone who has a brain. Jay Ingram: Defy Dementia is all about living in ways that keep our brains healthy and reduce our risk of dementia. Allison Sekuler: Today on the show, "Living Out Loud in the Face of Dementia", we're exploring the impact of dementia on the 2SLGBTQI communities. Jay Ingram: I'm Jay Ingram. I'm a science author and broadcaster. I've been exploring dementia in books and articles for decades. Allison Sekuler: And I'm Allison Sekuler, president and chief scientist at the Baycrest Academy for Research and Education and at the Center for Aging and Brain Health Innovation. Jay Ingram: Join us with pride as we defy dementia because you're never too young or too old to take care of your brain. Allison Sekuler: In Canada, the acronym 2SLGBTQI stands for two-spirit, lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, queer, questioning, and intersex. It's an umbrella term for a diverse group of communities. Jay Ingram: This episode is being released in June, marking the beginning of Pride season across Canada. It's a time to honor the resilience and achievements of 2SLGBTQI communities. Pride Season recognizes hard-won victories and ongoing struggles for equity and justice. Allison Sekuler: And there's much to celebrate. But as you'll hear today, many 2SLGBTQI people worry about their risk of developing dementia and the care that they might receive. For example, they worry that dementia might erase memories, and that's something many people worry about. Jay Ingram: But here's the twist on that. What if you've spent years finding your true self and come out only to forget your identity and the journey you took to live authentically? That's actually a question for all of us. How do we support a friend or loved one in that position when they may have forgotten who they are? Allison Sekuler: Then there's the issue of dementia care. According to a report by the national organization, Egale Canada, our healthcare system isn't equipped to care for 2SLGBTQI people living with dementia, and that's because in many cases they can't be sure that their rights or identity will be fully respected. Jay Ingram: And on top of all this, some researchers think that 2SLGPTQI people may face a greater dementia risk. That's because many of the risk factors that we have talked about on the show, social isolation, diminished wellbeing, stress, unhealthy eating, and alcohol use may be elevated for them. Allison Sekuler: And researchers think that trans people may face even greater risk because of discrimination, healthcare inequities, and the chronic stress that results from those systemic barriers. So there's lots to talk about today. Jay Ingram: And we begin with a personal story. In the 1960s, Susan Gapka grew up on a military base in Ontario. She ran away from home when she was a teenager and for a decade experienced homelessness on the streets of Toronto. Susan's journey took a powerful turn in her forties when she came out as trans, and she is celebrating long-term recovery from mental health challenges as well as alcohol and drug use. After coming out, she became an advocate, researcher, community organizer, and activist for human rights. In 2018, Susan became the first openly trans person to receive a key to the City of Toronto in recognition for her efforts. Susan's been working for a decade at a community center in Toronto's 2SLGBTQI Village. She continues her advocacy work with the Canadian Union of Public Employees. She's also an avid runner. In fact, she just completed a 10K run last week. Susan Gapka joins us from Toronto. Susan, thank you for helping us defy dementia. Susan Gapka: Thank you, Jay, for that warm introduction. It's a special day for me because I'm celebrating 28 years of getting off the streets and into housing and social support and long-term recovery for mental health and addictions. Jay Ingram: Well, congratulations on that, and we're happy to be sharing this day with you. We are going to talk about dementia, but we want to find out a little bit about you first. That 10K race, how did that go? Susan Gapka: Well, there was 23,000 people running down Yonge Street last week, and to be in that crowd of other people trying to do exactly what I was doing, putting one foot in front of the other and getting from the start line to the finish line, I'm so blessed that at my elder age I'm still able to run 10K. I'm really blessed that I can continue to be able to be physically active. Allison Sekuler: And why is running and fitness so important to you? Susan Gapka: Exercise is an important part of my recovery process. I found different ways of doing that. I have had extreme challenges as a trans woman in sharing recreational and sporting change rooms and equipment rooms, and even being in the track and field sector. I did get a university education, but once I graduated I didn't have access to the exercise facilities. So running outdoors gave me a place to continue to work on both my physical exercise, but mentally and psychologically all the stressors just fall by the wayside because I'm just, as I said, I'm just putting one foot in front of the other. Allison Sekuler: Given your commitment to those healthy activities and the role running's playing in your life, does brain health also play a role in your thinking? Is dementia on your mind these days? Susan Gapka: Well, I worry about a time when I won't be able to remember things. I forget people's names. Thank goodness we've been introduced, and I've written your names down so I don't forget. Especially if we're going to defy dementia, I need to keep the brain and the body and the psychological pieces of myself intact, so I worry about that. Jay Ingram: Susan,, when you say you forget names, I think most of us do that at one time or another, but do you feel in any way that you might be vulnerable to developing dementia? Susan Gapka: Absolutely. I worry because my years as a rambunctious teenager fighting in the schoolyard, quarreling at home, I've been in some tussles, I'm lucky to be alive, and when I was younger I never expected to live past 30 years of age, and here I am more than double that. Looking at the risk factors of social isolation, drugs and alcohol, cigarettes, poverty, lack of diet, those are all things I experienced when I was younger, when I was angry at everybody and not being able to be myself. And there's a lot of violence on the streets, and I've been banged up a few times. I'm a bit of a warrior and a survivor, and so I didn't take precautions growing up, so now I'm doing what I can to take care of myself. But I worry, what if that all catches up with me at some time? I try to eat well, exercise, be socially engaged. But the body breaks down, and I'm worried about whether I'll be able to take care of myself because the world is a cold and cruel place in some ways. You don't have to be trans to experience hardship in Downtown Toronto, to be able to afford rent or groceries, but with those extra barriers and access to social determinants of health, yes, I don't know what's going to happen when I can't take care of myself. Allison Sekuler: Can you detail a little bit more of the risk factors for brain health that you feel you might have faced specifically as a trans person? Susan Gapka: Well, legal identification for one was. I have a bit of a cool story because I've been such an activist, negotiated with the government to be able to change my record of birth, which is called a birth certificate. I helped change that through my political advocacy. Then I got to take advantage of it myself. If you don't have a proper legal document, it's sometimes hard to get housing [or] employment [or with] law enforcement or any place like travel across the border. It is pretty scary times right now [to go] into the United States. Back before I was able to change my legal documents, it meant that I would almost always be misnamed and mispronounced, and that just gets tiresome and tedious after a while. And then the microaggressions build up, and then it's hard to be peaceful when people are not treating you the way you're trying to present to the world. But if I don't have access to housing, if I don't have access to employment or income security, how can I take care of myself [and] access to healthcare? So especially as we age, those things are so incredibly important. If you are not able to be your authentic self and being worried about the bad things happening, I can't imagine how that would feel because before I was able to get into recovery, I was frigging afraid of my own shadow. What I went through helped build the resilience to be the person I am now. But my goodness, I know from personal experience how difficult that can be to always feel like somebody's after you and not knowing that there's sunlight at the end of the tunnel. Allison Sekuler: And so many of the things that you're talking about, the social isolation, the stressors, the alcohol use; all of those are risk factors for dementia, and it's great to see that you've been able to do some things to move on the path toward better brain health. In addition to running 10K, which is incredible, what else are you doing to boost your brain health now? Susan Gapka: Well, I also have been an avid chess player ever since a teacher taught me this in grade three. And I'm a bit of a braggart, but I have a 91% winning rate, and I'm pretty proud of myself. And so those are some of the things I do to keep my brain active and counter the risks. I try to eat healthy food, shop for more healthy groceries. It's hard with a limited income. I feel that just getting outside and walking around, you might bump into a neighbor and talk to them. I find that makes a world of difference for me. Jay Ingram: Do you have any brain health advice for young trans people? Susan Gapka: I guess this is where I sound like the grandma and say, "Don't do what I did when I was younger." And so, Jay, you just reminded me that we're doing this for Pride month and it's because I'm a trans person, and I realize as we're talking here that I've forgotten that I am a trans person at times, and what a wonderful life. Because being trans is part of who I was, and am, and I still do work around that, especially in these times of rising hate and anti-trans policies. So I do not get to retire anytime soon, which is just to be validated and useful in society is really important. But my advice to younger people, don't do what I did when I was younger. I was rebellious and angry. Try to find someone to talk to. Reach out to helplines, suicide lines. Look for that friendly adult who will support you, the teacher, the GSA in the school. Part of it is I was so socially isolated; every time I reached out to adults, I was told, "Boys don't do that." I was in tap dance school and I wanted to wear the tutu and go out, and I was taken out of class. And so just don't give up, like I did, and then act out for part of a lifetime. Now all of those experiences helped me become stronger and more resilient, but everyone's going to have their own journey. But boy, when we get through it, it's like standing on a mountaintop and seeing the view. It's so beautiful and gorgeous. Sometimes there's cloudy days, but I got to say the sun is awesome. Allison Sekuler: And one of my friends, who's a trans man, says being trans is the least interesting thing about him. Yes, it's part of his identity, but it's not the most important thing. So now if you think about the future, if dementia is in your future, how do you think that being trans is understood or respected in care settings and what would you want inclusive dementia care to look like? Susan Gapka: My hope is that if I ever went or other people went into a long-term care home, they'd be treated with how they wanted to be known, that a caregiver could give them supports, that it'd be affirming healthcare, affirming everything actually. That they'd be able to have their friends and family come and visit them, that they'd be treated with respect and dignity by the care providers. We need to still do work on that to make sure that there is inclusive healthcare, but we don't really have a lot of history on what happens to aging trans people. Would I remember myself as a little boy? I can't believe I said that out loud. Or would I remember myself as a rebellious teenager? Would I remember that I was alcohol and drug-free? I mean, I have no idea what happens if my memory goes. I'm hoping that people around will understand who Susan was and treat her with respect and dignity. Jay Ingram: Well, Susan, on this pretty special day for you, we really appreciate you joining us and helping us defy dementia. Thank you. Allison Sekuler: Yeah, thanks. Susan Gapka: Well, thank you, Jay and Allison, and I hope that the audience has enjoyed our conversation. Jay Ingram: Susan Gapka is a trans community organizer and activist. She joined us from Toronto. Allison Sekuler: Our next guest has been listening to Susan. Dr. Samir Sinha is the doctor who cares for older adults. He's a clinician scientist at the Sinai Health System and at the University Health Network in Toronto, and he's also a professor of medicine at the University of Toronto and the director of health policy research at Toronto Metropolitan University's National Institute on Aging. As a gay man, he's a proud member of the 2SLGBTQI communities. He was a contributor to a report that came out in 2022 that put forward ways to improve support for 2SLGBTQI people living with dementia. That report is entitled, "Coming Out and Coming In to Living With Dementia." Dr. Sinha is also a visiting fellow at the University of Oxford in the UK, and that's where he's joining us from today. Samir, thank you so much for helping us defy dementia. Samir Sinha: Thanks for having me, Allison. Allison Sekuler: What struck you when you were listening to Susan's story? Samir Sinha: Well, first of all, I'm very grateful that Susan was willing to share with us her story. She's had an incredible journey, and it's a journey that is far from over. She's shared with us a challenging past, but she's in a good place right now, but it's also a place where she's living with risk. She's now thinking about her future and how she can defy dementia. Jay Ingram: Samir, to what extent do we understand the dementia risk faced by 2SLGBTQI people, and in particular trans people? Samir Sinha: It's a great question, Jay. Over the last few years, we've realized that there's not a huge amount of research that's been done looking at the risk of dementia or even how we approach caring for people living with dementia and also thinking about their care partners within this community. But there's bits and pieces we can start putting together to give us a better understanding of what puts people in the 2SLGBTQI community at increased risk. There's enough information out there that we can start making further recommendations or providing advice that can certainly improve the situation. Jay Ingram: Could you outline for us what is known about the dementia risk factors faced by, let's say, trans people in particular, trans people like Susan? Samir Sinha: Well, I think I'll start more broadly. So I'll think about the 2SLGBTQI community in general because when you think about some of the shared experiences, that notion of figuring out who you are and then coming out at a young age, that can lead to a lot of personal and family upheaval early on. Some people might be kicked out of the house at a very formative time in their life when they're just struggling to exist when that's the time when you need to try and be in school and complete your education. Then you start thinking about trying to make ends meet and trying to get a career and other opportunities that allow you to earn a basic income that allows you to live a healthy lifestyle and be the person that you want to be. And so with those things being challenged, it can increase your risk of various chronic illnesses and health factors that can really impact people over time. And then coupled with all of this could be the increased risks of discrimination and other aspects that could then really impact a person's mental health and wellbeing. So we know that there are higher rates of mental illness, such as depression and suicide in 2SLGBTQI communities, but then you start thinking about the trans community and then you just amplify a lot of this. So when you look at aspects like attempted suicide, trans people have been found to be six times more likely to have attempted suicide than say cisgendered individuals, for example. Then when you look at just the risk of death, we know that it's much higher, almost twice in people from the trans community versus the general population. And then when you look at mental health diagnoses, one study from the University of Ottawa that looked at trans individuals found that rates of depression were being reported in about a third of these individuals compared to just under 10% in the general population. So when we start looking at that list of the known risk factors for dementia, you can start seeing that if you weren't able to complete high school, for example, if you have been struggling with mental health issues, depression in particular, if you have poor health outcomes, cardiovascular health issues, which are higher in these populations for a variety of reasons, all these things can just increase the risk that you can have. And Susan even shared that growing up she was in various skirmishes, for example. What I'm worried about is did Susan actually suffer some traumatic brain injuries? That could also further increase her risk of dementia. So there's a number of things that make this population particularly more vulnerable, the 2SLGBTQI population in general. But in particular, the trans community, it's just one extra aspect that one has to think about as one ages. Allison Sekuler: So in addition to those sorts of issues like trauma, it's also known that social isolation and loneliness are also risk factors. To what extent would those or stigma and discrimination play a role as risk factors for trans people or in the 2SLGBTQI community more broadly? Samir Sinha: Thanks for raising that, Allison, because that's actually an important aspect to maybe handle it separately from the other risk factors because when you think about, just as you said, discrimination, and it's just discrimination from society as a whole. I'll be very honest being a gay man or if you're a gay woman, it's more acceptable in our society, but trans maybe not so much. And I will say that to be honest, within the 2SLGBTQI community, I think the trans community has always been a bit more marginalized, by far, than say other members of the community. And so because of that, you can see heightened rates of loneliness and social isolation. And as you noted, that's yet another risk factor that can play out. The other thing that links to all of this is that if you are to be more socially isolated, then what is the quality of your support network? Because we know that if you develop dementia, with time you are going to need help with your day-to-day living. And if you don't have a strong social support network that appreciates the needs of a person now living with dementia and what those unique needs might be for people from the 2SLGBTQI community in general, but also trans people in particular, you might also have more challenges getting the care and support you need if you develop a diagnosis later on. Jay Ingram: Samir, Susan also said that if she develops dementia she's worried about forgetting about her difficult road to achieving her identity as a trans person. How widespread is that concern, and is it limited to trans people or does it exist among all 2SLGBTQI people? Samir Sinha: I haven't seen much in the way of research that can really give us clear data or numbers that I can just repeat back to you. But it certainly is something that now as we start thinking about what happens with dementia. And the phenomenon where as dementia progresses, you tend to lose your most recent memories first, for example, and you start increasingly living further and further in the past. And so this is why people who have survived the Holocaust or residential school survivors, for example, are now reliving those details because they are living back in those older memories. And then you can imagine now the unique aspect that comes with a trans individual who may now regress, if you will, to a point in their memories where they're now living as a 15-year-old boy, when they transitioned a decade later, for example, to who they are today. And as Susan was saying, she's worried about it. Well, how would I navigate that if I want to be known as Susan and treated as Susan. Because I fought long and hard to figure out who I am, and I know who I am now and who I want to be acknowledged as. But what happens if she develops dementia and now we're in a situation where we are her loved ones trying to provide care and support, and we're addressing her as Susan, because that's how she's wanted to be addressed, but now she says, "I don't know. Why are you calling me that? That's not my name. And why am I dressed as a woman? Why do I look like a woman?" These are realities that I think increasingly we're starting to hear more about, and we're now having to think about what is the best way to approach care in those situations. And [when] you think about it, even with members of the 2SLGBTQI community who are not trans. I think this is why whenever you're providing care and support, you always have to think about who do you have in front of you, how do they see themselves, and how do you provide dignified care that's respectful and supportive? And you never know what you're going to get until you get it. And that's why we really need to have care teams and care partners supported with education and knowledge so they can be ready to meet that moment, whatever it might be. Allison Sekuler: In one of our previous episodes, Episode 16, "Lying for Love", Ben Hartung, who's one of our guests then, talked about, to your point, going where the person is in terms of their memory at that moment. And from your perspective then, is that the right sort of approach to support someone living with dementia who might've forgotten coming out as a 2SLGBTQI person? Samir Sinha: In many ways, yes. Let's just say that we're in a future situation where the person that I've come to know as Susan is now saying, "That's not my name." Sometimes families will say, " I try and correct them, and say, 'Your name is Susan,' and they're like, 'My name is not Susan,'" and because in their memories and where they're at now with their disease, for example, that's not who they see themselves as. And we're now just in a situation where we're in a shouting match and some people say, "Well, I'm just going to teach them and remind them that you transitioned," and it can just create more stress. So in a more innocent way, I say, if your loved one is saying the sky is green today, then guess what? The sky is green. I think we really have to understand what the situation is and how we are going to support this individual so that we're not creating distress, that we're meeting them where they're at. And again, this is where opportunities exist to have conversations with people. I certainly would do this now in my practice to say, "This might happen, and I want to play out some scenarios because absolutely we're going to want to support you and treat you as Susan, but if this happens to you, if you have retrogenesis in a sense that you're now no longer identifying as Susan but you're identifying as your former self and us trying to do anything else is causing you distress, what would you like me to do?" And I think by at least having that conversation, I don't think anybody would say, "No, please make me suffer because I've suffered to get to this point." They don't want to be in distress and nobody wants to cause distress. So I think this is where the unique care aspects of members of this community need to really be thought through even further so that we're ready to meet those moments as they might arise. Jay Ingram: Samir, you've made it clear that this is an ongoing research and care project. At the moment, how well do you think Canadian home care and long-term care systems support 2SLGBTQI people? Samir Sinha: I think it's a bit better than it was, say a decade ago, but I think it's still very patchy. And I think there's a broader general awareness of members of the 2SLGBTQI community. I think legalizing same-sex marriage, for example, I think broader visibility of members of the communities, over times including members of our trans community I think have helped raise general awareness, but these aren't things that aren't being emphasized in the levels that they should. And I think a lot of home care and long-term care providers, while people might be generally more aware of these communities, for example, and I think certainly there are examples in larger metropolitan areas like the Greater Toronto Area, for example, where you see examples of homes that have actually really made efforts to be a more inclusive space, even have opened, what we call rainbow wings, for example, and making sure that everybody in the 2SLGBTQI community, staff and residents, can feel welcome and supported, but that's more rare than what's standard. And so I think there's a long way to go to make sure that anybody working in this space appreciates what culturally appropriate and safe care looks like. And this could be everything from language concordant care and the importance of understanding the unique needs of various ethnocultural communities. But I would also include members of the 2SLGBTQI community and especially trans people because the reality is that when people know that inclusive care is not available, people are just not going to seek it out. They're just going to avoid it, and that's a real problem because they're the last people that should be not trying to seek out care because they feel that that's just going to not meet their needs. Allison Sekuler: So Defy Dementia is all about suggesting actions that people can take to lower their dementia risk or to improve their cognitive health. So given our discussion, what do you think 2SLGBTQI people can do to lower their dementia risk? Samir Sinha: This is complicated because I think there's a broader societal piece here, and then there's the things that members of the community [can do] because I don't want us to make it sound like the onus should be on the 2SLGBTQI community, especially trans people, to be responsible for all of this. I think as a society we need to do better to recognize that diversity is our strength and create more welcoming and supportive experiences and environments for members of the 2SLGBTQI community and trans people in particular. I think we just need to do that, number one. And by doing that, then we lower the levels of stigma. We lower those risks of social isolation and loneliness, and we hopefully will lower that risk of mental health issues, depression and suicide, that are at extremely high levels. But it's also for members of the trans community and the 2SLGBTQI community, in particular, to recognize that depression, for example, being one of the risk factors. It's trying to seek out mental health supports as early as possible, knowing that cardiovascular health issues are at a higher prevalence within these populations, and those risk factors being better attended to by being more proactive with one's health could be helpful. And really, trying to always strengthen one's social community, trying to make sure that one does try and seek out spaces and communities where one can build that network. And in greater metropolitan areas like Toronto, for example, we do have organizations and spaces where people can congregate, people can meet, people can build communities in that way. And I think the importance of this podcast, in my view, is just helping to just raise the fact that this is an issue that's of higher risk within this population in general, but the trans community in particular. But there are things that we can do. And as your tagline goes, it's never too early. It's never too late to think about this. But also it's making sure that as members of the healthcare community, that we can start thinking about what are the unique needs that care partners and people living with dementia who are members of this community [have] and really making sure that we can offer services that really are inclusive. Because you hear horror stories about people who really have to go back into the closet or care partners who don't really want to share all the information that might be helpful because it might out them as a couple. So, speaking about themselves being roommates, for example, as opposed to partners, and then maybe not appreciating the real emotional toll that this is having on the caregiver because this is their partner, not their roommate, for example. Or realizing that people are worried about being discriminated against in their own homes, so they may want to hide pictures showing them being in a same sex [relationship] or other kind of other aspects of their life, for example. So it's just all these sorts of things that I just think it's helpful for us as society to appreciate how marginalized these communities have been and the support that they might need living with dementia. And so just being generally more aware, I think, can at least allow us to understand why there are unique considerations and there's additional training and support that we could all benefit from that would make us better allies to members of these communities, especially the trans community and their care partners, especially if they come to develop dementia. Allison Sekuler: Samir, thanks so much for sharing such great information with us and taking the time. And thank you also for all the work you do in your leadership here in Canada in the dementia space and in the National Institute on Aging. Thanks for taking the time. Samir Sinha: Thanks for having me, Allison, and thank you for having me, Jay. Jay Ingram: Thank you. Allison Sekuler: Dr. Samir Sinha is a geriatrician and a clinician scientist. He joined us from Oxford in the UK. Jay Ingram: Allison, what's your reaction to what we've just heard? Allison Sekuler: Well, there's so much to think about. And I know many people listening will have families or friends in the 2SLGBTQI communities who've had their own experiences and will know that sometimes part of it is how alone people might feel, that they might feel they're the only people in this situation. And we heard about how that social isolation, the systemic barriers, the discrimination can really impact people in these communities. And one of the things that was mentioned was that there are supports that are out there, and I just want to make sure people understand those supports. So for example, I have many friends in the community, and I know that groups like PFLAG have been tremendously supportive, and it really helps folks realize they are not alone in this journey. Even something like going to a Pride march. The first time I went to a trans Pride march with one of my friends, I was really struck by the power of the community. And my friends have told me that when they go to these sorts of large group activities, they realize they're not alone, and it makes them feel much more integrated into society, and I think it helps them realize there is a way to break down some of those barriers. Jay Ingram: I was struck by that idea that as memory fades, early memories from life persist better than recent memories, and that might create an identity problem for some of these people. And it isn't just that. It's that [it] connects to many things we've said about caregiving, and especially I would highlight this part, as we were told by Ben Hartung, you have to live or acknowledge or work with the reality that the person living with dementia has. And if their reality is that there's some confusion or loss of memory about the fact that they, for instance, have come out or have transitioned, it's not as important to correct them. It's more important to be with them and share their reality with them. And I've certainly become aware over the episodes that caregiving is a much more complex and challenging role, and I don't like to add more responsibility to it, but this just emphasizes and underlines connecting with the person. As a caregiver, you're there for the person, not for yourself. Allison Sekuler: And the groups that I mentioned, groups like PFLAG, are open not just to people who are themselves individuals with 2SLGBTQ identities, but also for the families and the friends. In fact, the P and the F at the start of PFLAG stands for Parents and Friends. So it's the whole community, the whole circle of care, the whole circle of love is included in those groups, and people can find information about those on our resource page. Jay Ingram: To find out more about how we can all boost our brain health and reduce the risk of dementia or slow its progression, please visit us at defydementia.org. There you can check out other episodes of the podcast, as well as our videos, infographics and other resources. Allison Sekuler: And for their kind help on this episode, we'd like to thank the team at Egale Canada, Stephanie Woolley of PFLAG Canada, and Dr. Ashley Flanagan at Bruyère Health. Jay Ingram: Our podcast production team is Rosanne Aleong, Sylvain Dubroqua, and Chris Pilieci. Production is by PodTechs. Music by Steve Dodd. Our cover art is by Amanda Forbis and Wendy Tilby. Our writer and chase producer is Ben Schaub. Allison Sekuler: And we'd also like to thank the funders of the podcast, the Slate Family Foundation, as well as the Center for Aging Brain Health Innovation, and Baycrest. And we are very grateful for your support too, so please push that subscribe button for Defy Dementia wherever you get your pods, and don't forget to leave a like, a comment or maybe even a five-star review. Jay Ingram: Next time on Defy Dementia, some vital tips for caregivers. People living with dementia can exhibit behaviors that may be very challenging. They can resist care, meals, and their medications. They can get physical. They can be restless and exhibit paranoia. They can be constantly seeking exits and risk getting lost in the outside world. Managing these behaviors can be tough, so we'll be sharing insights and simple, hard-won tips on how to work through them. That's next time on Defy Dementia. I'm Jay Ingram. Allison Sekuler: And I'm Allison Sekuler. Thank you for listening to Defy Dementia. And don't ever forget, you're never too young or too old to take care of your brain.